Neal McSpadden on Kamala's Unrealized Capital Gains Proposal and Macro Inflation

I went through a very old school kind of apprenticeship sort of process where over the last 15 years you know I was working 100 hours a week did over 50,000 tax returns and you know billions of dollars worth of client earnings and my tribe is the independent contractors the small business owners the solopreneurs because what happens in the tax world in the tax professional world is that there's kind of two different levels the planning is is absolutely critical and it's not just about the end result it's about going through the process of making sure everything's set up in the right way just no there's nothing more patriotic there's nothing more American to doing everything you possibly can to minimize your tax liability us at Remnant Finance we're we're big fans of investing in your own business and investing in yourself we think that it should be a massive portion of the money

that comes in on the face of it unconstitutional they’re already trying to get around that by talking about it as it’s a prepayment so it’s not actually a tax it’s a prepayment on tax that you’re eventually going to have when you do sell it’s like a Scooby-Doo episode where there you know we’ we’ve caught this grocery gouging and then they pull off the hood and it’s Congress spending capital gains is the only place in the tax world where we pay Uh current dollars in tax on old money that is not inflation adjusted until there there is the political will to cut spending which is really really hard cuz now you’re cutting off somebody’s gravy train then you know we’re just going to get deeper and deeper into an inflationary [Music] scenario hey welcome back for another episode of Remnant Finance we’re excited we have a special guest today this is

Neil mpen he is with ta Sherpa he’s the TA Sherpa he is our uh he’s our accountant both both Hans and I and so we do a lot of discussions with him and a lot of strategy and he’s really really really changed the way we think about taxes the way we think about our money flows and and has improved our lives from the tax sense in in intangible ways so Neil hopefully tangible too and tangible yeah yeah but the way we think is what I was thinking about there is like there were even I didn’t even know existed but obviously tangible in the in the dollar sense yeah why don’t you uh just tell us a little bit about yourself how you became the tax Sherpa what your background is etc etc yeah I came to the whole tax World in a very unusual kind of fashion uh so you know back in uh I

was just before we turned all the recording Hans and I were talking we both went to the same school we went to Georgia Tech and I majored in engineering and it was interning and working in industry in engineering that really turned me off to the whole corpor corporate world and I can pinpoint the moment so I was working at AMD out in Austin Texas and you know they make computer chips they’re competitors with Intel I happened to be there during the time that the first 1 gigahertz processor was produced that released to the market and AMD beat Intel to the punch it was a huge deal the stock like tripled and everybody was super excited and uh after that after everything died down there was an award ceremony that was held on the corporate campus and so we all got together in this Amphitheater and vice president of

whatever it was was talking about how you know Joe he got three patents this year let’s give them a hand you know obviously the patents belong to the company but here’s plaque everybody gives them a round of applause and you know it’s it was a whole morning of the stuff and the last guy is the one I remember I don’t remember his name but I always call him Bob so Bob uh you know when crunch time came and we had to ship product you know he had a vacation to Europe playing with his family was was booked it was paid for it was approved his time off and everything and he canceled that vacation and decided to come in to work and you know be real company man let’s give him a hand and it was at that moment that I realized this is not for me so uh that’s not the

that’s not the work life balance that I wanted and so uh that’s when I started searching for other things and I spent basically the entire uh 2000s uh you know trying this trying that and doing different entrepreneurial Journeys some worked some didn’t and then in 2007 I started getting letters from the IRS saying I owed them $1.3 million so that was uh kind of a problem and but like most people I stuck my head in the sand and I just ignore them and because I knew you know there’s no way this could be right I didn’t make that kind of money I don’t have that kind of money it’s just it’s just beyond the rimal possibility so uh so I went through the whole process that a lot of people have gone through where if you ignore those letters and the numberers big enough you’ll get a letter every month or so

and then if you ignore all those you’ll start getting certified mail and then if you ignore all those you’ll start getting phone calls and if you ignore those then they’ll start going after whatever they can find in my case uh they were garnishing my paycheck and at that point I couldn’t afford to pay rent so I let it get to that stage and then I started realizing okay I actually have to fix this and in searching around trying to find somebody who could help me I ended up Hing up with this former Wall Street tax attorney and he helped me fix my problem and in doing so uh know his business was starting to grow and so I came in with all the entrepreneurial learnings that I had over the last 10 years and uh helped him triple his business over the next few years and he showed me this whole world

of of tax advisory that I didn’t know existed and most people don’t know exists so uh and so I went through a very old school kind of apprenticeship sort of uh process where over the last 15 years you know I I was working 100 hours a week which I don’t recommend uh but you know over that time did over ,000 tax returns and you know billions of dollars worth of client earnings and you know saving clients millions of dollars every year so uh that’s where I got my my start in the tax world and then in 2020 really I mean it’s 2019 is technically but 2020 is when I really got started with tax Sherpa where I decided to go off on my own and and focus on what I call my tribe and my tribe is the independent contractors the small business owners the solopreneurs

because what happens in the tax world in the tax professional world is that there’s kind of two different levels so at one level you have you know the strip mall places that have the national chains or maybe somebody’s a solo practitioner has a small office and you know basically the advantage of those places is that they’re relatively inexpensive and they’re available uh so if you are just have a day job and that’s all you have going on then okay you know you can go to those places on the other end of the spectrum you have tax advisory people that are working with high net worth individuals or big companies and they’ll charge you know 100,000 150,000 uh for a tax return and not even including all the other stuff just filing the factory and so what happens is the people in my tribe that the the solo

prods and the and the independent contractors of the small business guys is that by default they end up going with what’s available because they can’t pay $100,000 for for taxes that doesn’t make any sense uh so they end up going to these places that you know are very you know churn and burn you know they’ll uh they’re very they’re how do I want to say this charitably uh they focus on lowest common denominator kind of stuff and so if if you’re a small business person you know who’s maybe bringing in a couple hundred thousand dollars a year maybe that’s not profit but maybe that’s what’s coming in the front door you’re just getting slaughtered by taxes and you know by doing the the planning steps that you take from that big business world and applying it to the small business person then we’re able to achieve huge saving uh for

people and turn their situations around so that’s how tcher came to be and that’s who we aimed to serve yeah that’s incredible and I’d say even from my end I think that you’ve downplayed a little bit of a lot of what you do through the year because most of us who went to that to that little planning office and just got our taxes done we handed them a little folder with all the documents that came in the mail maybe our really poor bookkeeping will went along with it and most of them don’t take the time to fix that poor bookkeeping but they just they just take it and run with it and then they spit out the return I’ve I’ve met with you guys so far this year probably at least because this is year one so we’re getting a lot of things in in process so

we’ve probably met at least five times here it is August maybe six times already you’ve helped us build out change the infrastructure of our businesses you’ve helped us re rework the way the money flows through the llc’s how we’re going to actually do our taxes so it’s a lot of planning on top of that tax preparation and want to downplay that because it’s tens of thousands of dollars potentially and if you’re making you know seven figures in your business it could be hundreds of thousands of dollars difference between having a real plan that somebody an expert is helping you walk through verse just going to you know um blank in our block and having some guy plug your numbers which yeah like you said for some people you know that work that works but not for business owners not for business owners yeah for it’s it’s

all about the planning actually and that’s a great point that you know when you when you file the return that’s the last thing that happens right and then maybe you cut a check to the IRS maybe they cut you in check whatever it is uh but the the goal is during the year so we’re here at the beginning of September 2024 Q4 I don’t even know what month it is yeah I said August well August just finished but uh but yeah so you know we’re we’re starting the the end of your Sprint where we want to make sure that everything is caught up all the plans we want to be in place are in place and that we can we can know on December 31st we can know like okay what are we expecting and then when we actually file the return in in the spring usually of

2025 that everything matches up with our expectations so uh yeah the planning is is absolutely critical and you know imagine it’s it’s very similar in in your business where you know it’s not just about the end result it’s about going through the process of making sure everything’s set up in the right way that’s right that’s right and and the final the final thing for for our listeners that I I want before we move on and talk about some things happening in the world here is that I want to point out that um that Tak Sherpa understands actually implements and supports what we do and as far as with whole life insurance and the infinite banking concept so that’s a really common question we get is like I would love to find an accountant who gets this y well I want to just tell you that if

you’re listening to this right now here’s one and here’s a really good one who we utilize so uh he’s not going to tell you that this is a terrible place to store money you can do you can get a tax deferral if you put it in your 41k like you’re going to get a much bigger picture advice so um keep that in mind for our listeners absolutely so yeah I’m an IBC uh uh I’m not a practitioner I don’t sell uh insurance but I am a uh user of IBC so little p practitioner we’ll call that little p yeah so yeah I’ve read Nelson Dash’s book I’ve read Bob Murphy’s book um and uh yeah I am a I’m a practitioner with a small fee and I want to throw in my my my exposure to you through through this business and maybe perspective that people that are

listening uh many of our uh clients being military specifically military Pilots how Brian and I met you know we go along our whole career in the worst tax structure which is your W2 because you don’t even see it coming out the door um Brian and I say pretty regularly that you know everyone should be required to write their quarterly tax check even if you’re a W2 employee if the system were on um because when you feel that pain you would you would Revolt uh but for 12 13 years of my career I never even thought about it I I was happy for a couple thousand dollars return at the end of the year I could I could log in and see the taxes each month if I wanted to but I never really focused on it and all of a sudden in 2022 I just made a little

bit of money in this business and all of a sudden I have a bill of $10,000 to the IRS and I had to write that check and I was not I just wasn’t expecting it I I should have known but like there’s so much out there that we don’t even think about and when we think about we talk about you know people always compare this to Investments rate of return 12% 10% of the market whatever well if you’re paying a quarter of all of those gains to the government at at a minimum a quarter of that and and and we’re saying like what if you could save 25% of what’s going out the door we’re comparing it to a 6% you know like saving losses is just as powerful when we talk about long-term compounding as earning gains um but you know there’s there’s for our listeners

just know there’s nothing more patriotic there’s nothing more American than doing everything you possibly can to minimize your tax liability that’s what our country was founded on and any any hint of the idea that it’s patriotic to pay taxes and support this government is absolutely communism that’s the yeah it’s the worst least yeah and that’s why that that’s why we are in the situation we’re in is because I’d say large part of it is that people don’t see the taxes going out the door because of automatic withholding and I would love if you talk any any of your thoughts on on the automatic withholding Etc um just because I think that for a lot of our listeners that’s GNA maybe this is the first time I’ve really thought deeply about taxes other than just I file it every year on Turbo Tax hope to get a little bit of return

yep so uh what you are saying is exactly right and was originally a problem for the government so what happened was in 1913 the 16th amendment was passed which created the income tax there was an income tax during the Civil War but that was struck down as unconstitutional so they passed a constitutional amendment and then uh for the first 30 years it was that’s how it was done where people would file once a year and then they would pay at that point and the government found out compliance is pretty low so uh in 1943 they passed uh I always get the name wrong I keep calling it the current withholding act but whatever the withholding act which created the the the payroll uh withholding structure that we now are dealing with because you know it was World War II they wanted to raise you know revenue for for the government and

they’ figured out and this was actually an innovation by Milton Friedman you know Mr free market uh uh figured out that you know if we if we get them upfront before they see the money compliance is way way higher and that’s absolutely true so uh you know people like every every springtime when tax time rolls around you’ll see all these all these advertisements uh you might see like road signs of like you know get $5,000 per kid or whatever uh and they’re talking about the refund they’re not talking about the the actual tax itself because there’s a tax liability and then there’s however much you paid in and whatever credits you might get and then the difference between those two creates a refund or creates an amount owed very very few people actually focus on the on the tax liability itself uh because that’s you know if for most people if if you have a

W2 then that money has already left your your paycheck you never saw it in the first place so people are just focused on that take-home pay and then and then they feel like that refund that they get at the end of the year is an extra bonus and that’s not actually what happened you just gave an interest an interest free loan to the government for that money and then uh if you actually wait a couple years they will pay you interest on it so they can’t wait too long or usse they won’t pay you unbelievable yeah well and you could have been earning that interest the entire time if you kept that money in your own ecosystem so the opportunity cost there can be huge and that’s another thing that that I I also think that you’ve probably seen and then let’s speak to this real quick if you will and

then we’ll we’ll talk about some things going on in the current political world real quick and that are cautionary and frightening to be honest but yep once you get involved with somebody and that person is able to mitigate their taxes to potentially tens of thousands for that small business owner do you see that often times they feel like just got a flush of money that they want to spend because my belief is like this was money you used to be just you know handing the government for their waste and their inefficiency why not keep it and put it in a place that creates more efficiency in your own life and I believe that that’s where like what you do ties into what I do and what Hans does is we can utilize that cash because you’re already used to not living on it and boost everything else you do with a more

efficient environment that is that is true um so you know we deal with with a lot of entrepreneurs and part of the entrepreneurial curse is that you are very optimistic so uh if you have your own small business you’re out there you’re doing your thing and you’re like if I had an extra $20,000 in my pocket I could go do this that and the other and that’s usually what happens uh they will in reinvest it into their business in some form or fashion um you know so there there’s definitely an argument to be made where it would be better to kind of set this money aside for long-term wealth building rather than uh you know op AAL spend in your business uh but percentage wise I couldn’t tell you off top of my head but I I know most people will will use that money for you know

more business and if it works out it’s great you know if it doesn’t work out then that money’s gone yeah and us at Remnant Finance we’re we’re big fans of investing in your own business and investing in yourself we think that it’s it should be a massive portion of the money that comes in but the cool thing is is utilizing the whole life insurance as we do we can do both yes and that’s where you know people could really optimize those do if they if they learn that yeah I I don’t know how much you guys uh focus on it but what once you hit that um that Tipping Point where you’re your premium payments you know actually grow you know what like three or 30 days after you deposit it you have more cash value available that you put in you know and I know the the where

that happens in the timeline is going to differ for every policy but uh you know I’ve got some policies that are you know eight nine years old now and so I put money in and I had more money to use and then I can then you know take a loan against that and then go spend it on whatever so I just got my roof done which wasn’t a business expense but needed to be done and that was you know 20 grand that I tapped from a uh from an insurance policy so it definitely it definitely works once you lay that Foundation yeah I love it so Hans let’s kick us off on what’s going on in the world man and let’s see what Neil has to think about some of it yeah well we I mean the big the big uh the big uh news bite right now as far

as economics go um would be Kamala Harris’s quote economic plan which is less of a plan and more of a few sound bites you know stitched together yep uh kamala’s economic you know thesis is about the the weight of of an eighth grader giving a speech in US Government but with less Clarity like there’s no there there’s really no thought to it it’s it’s it’s full but and typically we don’t really give too much Credence to what politicians say um because that if you do that it’s just chasing a a vapor trail but you know it’s not even worth worth considering almost except it seems to be part of the tactic you know that AOC almost perfected where it’s like you say the most outlandish thing and Democrats are surgical at this you say the most outlandish outlandish thing that’s so beyond the pale that people just kind of

roll their eyes and like oh that’s crazy this green New Deal is insane and now five years later that’s the norm and then you have these idiot Republicans that are like oh ours is the the better New Deal ours is the you know the real New Deal and they’re spinning off of this terrible idea but the idea the whole thing is that it imp permeates into the culture so it’s like it’s not far off in the future that that this is going to be seriously debated so even if it’s just a joke right now it’s in the National psyche and everyone who doesn’t understand capital gains let alone unrealized you know this this whole thing people are at least starting to look into it and then if you hear this this puppet Kamala Harris just saying it over and over then you might start to internalize the

idea and that seems to be kind of the strategy like I don’t think there’s any chance that in the next year they start C you know taxing unrealized capital gains but I we should talk through it and try to be a kind of kind of a a wall to hold back this terrible idea at least at least our you know couple hundred listeners can can understand what’s happening so what is unrealized capital gains and why is it obviously one of the worst economic decisions ever you know this will take five seconds if you if you’ll give me a second at Hans I want to actually point out that what you’re saying isn’t just true it’s you’re you’re actually living the back end of that because Janet Yellen first started talking about this in 2021 and Nancy Pelosi jumped on it and I don’t think Biden and Kamala really touched it then

but I don’t I’m not a 100% sure but this train started in 2021 on unrealized Capital I don’t think they’re sure either so what’s that oh I said I don’t think they’re sure either one one but I mean we’re now at year three of this this verbiage starting to enter the Lexicon of like what politicians promote to the unassuming masses so what you’re saying is actually in process this isn’t this isn’t day one what it’s wild yeah absolutely so uh so before we talk about unrealized capital gains we should probably Define what realized capital gains are so uh in the tax code the way it’s written the if you hold a a non-inventory asset so uh like the classic example is you hold a stock right so you buy Apple computer or whatever and you hold it for more than a year then it it gets classified as

what’s called long-term capital Gates once you sell it so if I bought $100 worth it rises in value over the how however long I hold it and then it’s worth $200 now from there I have a $100 gain so from 100 to 200 it’s 100 bucks and then I pay a special rate tax on that capital gain which is called long-term capital gains and the rate is it depends on how much total income you have for the year because the there’s three brackets for capital gain for long-term capital gains and that’s either 0% 15% or 20% and basically the way the math works out is that it’s it’s always going to be around half of whatever your rates are for your regular income that’s going to kind of be your capital gain rate and that’s the way it’s been for effectively forever um if you hold

something less than a year and you sell it then it’s short-term capital gains and it accounts the same as any other kind of income there’s no special preference but for holding more than a year you get you get that discounted rate so you know what has happened historically especially with people who are founders and owners of successful like like Mega successful businesses uh you know think Elon Musk owning Tesla and starlink and all these other things um is that they follow a strategy called buy borrow die uh where you buy an asset or you start an asset uh if you’re founding a new company uh that asset grows in value and instead of selling it and triggering a capital gains event and paying taxes on it you borrow against the value of it so similar to how you know IBC works you can borrow against stock if you if you have a larg enough

portfolio you can open a pledged asset line with your broker and you can borrow against the value of that stock uh if you have real estate you can borrow against the value of that real estate you’re never going to get the whole amount but you’re going to get a significant fraction of the value and because it’s a loan that’s not income so uh you know if you have a successful business that goes public you can borrow against those shares not pay any income tax spend the money on whatever it is you want to spend it on and then theoretically you know you can keep doing this forever until you pass away and then it all settles out in your estate so that’s the buy borrow die model and over the last I don’t know 10 15 years you know the the politics of wealth Envy have been ratcheted up as

we’ve all seen and so this proposal that they’re talking about here is really targeted against that and so what what what they’re talking about now is that um so back in March of 2024 B the Biden Administration released this whole uh budget proposal for 2025 along with a whole bunch of tax changes in order to support the budget of 2025 and this was one of them and so when when Biden got thrown out and Kam got put in nobody was exactly sure it’s like how much of this Are you standing by and how much of this are you going to just ditch and come up with your own policies and we still don’t know exactly but the the implication that has been made through various media Outlets is that you know they’ve talked to insiders and you know Harris is standing by this proposal from back from March and part of that is this

unrealized capit so the way the the plan is supposed to work is that instead of waiting for somebody to sell their you know their shares of Tesla or whatever um they are going to be assessed a 25% tax uh each year on on the unrealized gain so unrealized means you haven’t sold it you you you still own the thing and then you are paying a 25% tax on that increase that year and so that’s that’s the basic plan um there’s a bunch of a bunch of caveats to go along with that so the The Proposal as it currently stands as far as we know is that they’re only going to apply this to people who are worth a 100 million or more so there’s two things that come to mind immediately so one is that the I when the income tax was passed 110 111 years

ago uh that was sold as only the 1% are going to be paying this and now here we are 100 years later and everybody’s dealing with the income tax so you can’t rely on that at all already uh Elizabeth Warren’s talking about lowering it from 100 million to 50 million second thing that comes up is like well how do you know if somebody’s worth 100 million that they should owe this tax and you know basically it in effect people would have to be reporting their net worth to the government which is not what happens currently uh so so that’s the second thing and then and then more things start to Cascade immediately so um under the 16th Amendment there is a tax on income so if you didn’t sell anything you don’t have any income so on the face of it this is an unconstitutional proposal uh but that does not

necessarily mean that it won’t you know happen right because like Brian like you were saying you know they’ve been talking about this publicly for a couple years already so they’re they’re moving the framing of the conversation along uh to to get this done uh so on the face of it unconstitutional they’re already trying to get around that by talking about it as it’s a prepayment so it’s not actually a tax it’s a prepayment on the tax that you’re eventually going to have when you do sell and you know it’s it’s it’s an interesting tactic I don’t know if it’ll work or not um but it is uh it’s very least cognizant of the issue I guess I mean I mean if I just think about homes because so many people can actually relate to that outside of the 100 million but if you had bought a

home in 2004 it probably appreciated at quite a degree between then and 2008 so for so 05 0607 by end of year you would have seen some great appreciation and should this tax have then moved into the common man’s world and any assets they own they might have asked you for 25% of that so let’s say that house went you bought it for 100,000 and three years later it was worth 150 well you would have gotten an assessed tax of 25% each year of whatever that gain was but then in 2008 your house was worth you know 110 instead of that 150 that you just had were assess the tax on you lost your job and you want to sell your house then it’s not you weren’t taxed at the future gain you were taxed at something that didn’t exist that money that didn’t even exist which is kind of

it’s the exact type of money our government loves money that doesn’t exist but man that’s frightening because like like you said going back to 1913 like the top 1% were going to be taxed or their their lowest bracket was 1% there in the early years I don’t know the whole timetable and is like ah 1% you know it’s not doesn’t you don’t feel terrible about it but that can have a massive impact on wealth and now it’s well above that yeah yeah so um on on the on the 193 uh thing so originally it was only on incomes above $3,000 a year and you have to you have you have to you know adjust your inflation expectations you know so I actually went through this with chat gbt the other day it says okay in 1913 gold was 20 bucks an ounce and uh you know that equated to whatever

that 150 ounces of gold a year of income and now that Gold’s $2,500 oun what’s the equivalent income that you would need now and the answer is $375,000 so if we if if we’ kept that same kind of um inflation adjusted uh tax basis you would only be paying taxes above $375,000 and so that would that would exempt the vast majority of Americans like 95% of Americans from paying tax but you know because the needs for government funding have grown and grown and grown you know they just ratchet it down on more and more of the population uh but yeah so you know in this proposal with the unrealized capital gains so what happens if the if the value of the asset Falls do you get a refund nobody knows uh what happens uh if you don’t have the money so you know and and there’s been a

couple suggestions of how they would handle the liquidity issues uh especially with closely heeld stock because they’re really targeting the tech entrepreneurs with this uh so the Elam mus and the Mark Zuckerberg and all that kind of stuff uh but you know that’s just that’s just the starter group like we’ve seen that’s always going to creep there’s always going to be scope creep uh as as time goes on a a recent example of this is actually uh the Alternative Minimum test tax so the the Alternative Minimum Tax is AMT which is where if your income is high enough depending on your filing status no matter how many deductions you have on your like your mortgage interest your charity and all this kind of stuff they’re still going to tax you a minimum tax and so when that was originally passed uh it it only affected you know

whatever the top 10% but then as inflation eroded the the values then it just started affecting more and more the population so you know this is this is we’ve seen this at recent history where this exact dynamic plays out but um yeah so if if prices come down on your asset do you get a refund we don’t know uh the big problem though is the liquidity issue so there you know back in the you know I guess 50s or 40s there was all these uh movies about people losing the family farm and it’s because of the taxes so you know well mortgage and taxes but um you know if if you’re assess a tax on a thing you haven’t sold and that the value of that thing is a large percentage of your net worth then by definition you don’t have the money to pay for it so you know then it’s

going to create forc sales and in order to raise the funds in order to then pay the tax either that or you borrow against the thing and you’re financing the tax on the thing that you’re still holding which could then go down in value and you have all these risk factors so it’s it’s a it’s a terrible situation to be in for sure for anybody caught there the idea of that for sale you know you have this tax bill but you don’t have the income uh a decent proportion of people that have this bill do now for gains they have not yet realized are going to sell the asset that generated the gains yep driving down the price and so this whole idea of of you know we’re helping people it’s like well people the people you’re trying to help are the ones who you’ve convinced the 401K is their future

Saving Grace and so if if the rich quote are forc selling these assets because why would you keep holding these and the stock market plummets and we’re talking about tech specifically and we know the S&P 500 is seven stocks that are doing well and 493 stocks that are faltering or or stagnant if you’re if you if you eliminate the gains by forcing sale from these Tech entrepreneurs of their own stock you’re going to drive the only seven performers in the S&P 500 off a cliff and bring down the only thing that you convinced most you know quote average Americans who put their money in and so it’s this it it’s so stupid it’s so self-defeating um that you have to think I mean these aren’t these aren’t stupid people I mean I you know current Administration like brain dead and just a total vapid mouthpiece uh with with

with no synapses to rub together is you know the current Administration but apart from those two like Janet Yellen I had her as a professor or visiting Professor um in grad school and and you know like I don’t agree with their economic mindset but they’re not idiots of course they know this is a terrible terrible thing obviously and you know if if we you know if a smooth brain pilot like me can like think through a few evolutions of how this would play out of course they’re doing it so you have to think the the intention is destruction right like I mean they’re trying to rebuild you know take take down the American identity through this and this is just one of the many avenues that they’re using right like there there’s no way that they’re this incompetent even though we joke about how incompetent government is and of course

they kind of by systemic by the nature of the system they are incompetent and that’s a good thing but this is intentional destruction right how else can you view it yeah P pure malevolence there’s no other way to describe it yeah I I’ve been convinced of in the recent years that you know the purpose of an organization is the thing that it does so people talk about government incompetence I don’t I think you’re just picking the wrong goals that you think they’re aiming towards so I think I think they’re very competent at the things they’re trying to do because those are the things that they do uh so it’s only if you buy the pr that uh you think they’re in right it’s like safe and effective it’s like well when we hear that we think safe and effective means safe for the person taking it and

effective at the what we think it’s supposed to do but in reality it is safe and effective it’s safe for the manufacturer from liability and it’s effective at depopulation like it’s just eff making money yeah like it isfe and effective yeah um so so yeah I mean obviously they have they have their own Think Tank people they have modeled these things out now their models are probably wrong I mean the models are always wrong but some are useful um but yeah I mean there are other countries that have uh a a we a wealth tax which is effectively what this is so I have a friend in Switzerland and he is to report every year the value of his net worth and then he pays a tax based on the on the change and it’s you know incredibly onerous and it stifles capital formation so you know if you part part of the

problem with an with an unrealized tax aside from the unconstitutional unconstitutionality of it is that it just creates additional drag on the creation of value so uh you know it’s it’s similar to how in IBC you know you’re you’re always gaining on like the whole timeline rather than interrupting it by taking withdrawals out so it’s it’s it’s a same math as in any any other value creation uh timeline if if you have to if you’re going along building an asset a new company a piece of real estate whatever it is and then you have to sell down throughout its lifetime in order to pay this tax and the tax would be every year then you are going to you know reduce the base at which you’re compounding so that the long-term growth is by the time you get out you know 10 20 30 years whatever it

is then the ending point is going to be orders of magnitude less than it would have been otherwise and you know so you got to figure that’s actually the point here is that you know they don’t want people to have this dramatic outside success because you know it’s all coming from Envy essentially that’s just a a reversion to the mean let’s bring everyone to a lower common denominator which is that I guess if they do this then check they’re gonna they’re going to achieve that but I don’t think it’s going to happen but let’s talk about another one um if nobody else says any more on the unrealized capital gains disaster yeah I do want to point out that this would this would require an act of Congress so it’s not like the president can just sign the thing so the chances of that getting through Congress

are low but not zero so it’s definitely something to be aware of uh well let’s talk about price controls the uh the price gouging ban which again is like an eighth graders essay you know um it it’s so economically aerate to to to look at say the the profit margins of a grocery store and think that they’re gouging when the the you know it’s like it’s like a Scooby-Doo episode where there you know we’ve we’ve caught this grocery gouging and then they pull off the hood and it’s Congress spending it’s like you you are the ones doing this like if you want to if you want to control the prices in the grocery store you need to look down the road um to the Congress and and and just eviscerate them but this this idea you know it’s but but like you said it’s it’s targeting that

sentiment of wealth is bad and because these people own grocery stores and because the person who is in charge of this grocery store is some you know greedy corporate fat cat we that that’s who we’re it’s just it’s it’s an emotional appeal um without any economic Merit and I you got to think even like the most hardcore even jenet Yellen has to be like come on we wait we are we really going with we know groc stores profit margins are Raaz or thin like this can’t be the example we go with right but they are yeah yeah it’s absolutely true so you know even the talking heads on TV are talking about how this is a bad idea and so you have to figure that if they’re not on board then it’s terrible but yeah price controls have been tried throughout history in multiple different ways and

there’s not one single example where things came out better and um you know so the the current price control that some people are familiar with is in New York City and and other uh and other major cities there’s rent control and then that result is you have less Supply and lower quality so uh you know the same thing happens with any kind of price control uh that that will be imposed and you know there have been people that have done graphs showing that the price of goods that go into a grocery store you know it’s like their wholesale cost and the prices at grocery stores they’re just tracking line in line because the groceries specifically that that industry is it’s very fragmented there’s no you know so-called monopolistic uh pricing power and there’s lots of uh vendors to it so there’s not just you know one chicken company that is is

supplying all the chicken although there are large ones but there’s there’s competition at all levels of everything in the supply chain coming from a farm to a package piece of beef in the grocery store or you know uh you know whatever else you buy in the grocery store so there’s competition all along the way nobody’s able to take any pricing advantage over anybody else and when we look at the public companies that that are um you know the Kroger and and whoever you know you we can see how much money they’re making because they report it to the government and it’s not a lot I mean in absolute value they’re huge companies so yes there’s a big number but in percentage wise uh of you know compared to their costs it’s really really small so like historically Walmart you know one of the largest possibly the largest company in the

world uh has operated on 3% profit markets and you know they built this whole thing that’s you know in every country or lot of countries and throughout our country is so pervasive that everybody knows Walmart most people have shopped at Walmart a lot of people shop exclusively at Walmart and they do this because they’re able to crush down their prices to the point where you know the the customer is paying the least amount possible so it’s not as if somebody threw a switch in 2021 and said okay now we’re going to be evil monopolists and we’re going to increase our cost or increase our prices so that we can capture more more money from the consumer it’s just like no it’s just you know you guys created inflation the price of everything is rising we have to keep suits so we don’t lose money because you know if a company loses

money they can only do that so long before they go out of business right so it’s either raise prices or go out of business and the ones that are still around a lot of people did go out of business the ones that are still around have raised their prices to cover their costs and that’s just that’s just it so yeah it’s a terrible idea and you know um will will they be able to get anything through I think on this one they’ll actually have even more trouble because there’s no real um legal mechanism for them to impose like a nationwide anything when it comes to prices but they could try through through the power of tax and all this kind of stuff you know there have been talks about wind fall profits taxes and all this kind of stuff uh over the years it’s another one of those conversation

shifters that never used to be a thing and then somebody mentioned it 10 years ago and like he oil companies are making a lot of money let’s give them a special tax and you know they’re just pushing the conversation so they they can establish these tools in the minds of everybody so that it can then sound later on like it’s a reasonable thing to talk about and we’ve we’ve seen this before in the 70s with actual price controls in the fuel world like and it’s it’s for some reason it’s breezed over I think it’s you know because nobody even like gets upset about this all they do is point when it comes to Nixon at Watergate and this massive Scandal and what an evil man he was and and it’s like they they point to that and that was everything wrong with Nixon so forget the gold untie the dollar to gold

and forget the price controls that led to led to a lot of shortages for a lot of people in the 70s which was probably way more economically harmful than anything that happened to Watergate yeah absolutely but yeah uh so we are you know what 50 years in now with the with the temporary closure of the gold window so it’s coming back don’t worry but but yeah so um you know I was born in 1980 and so I did not experience the the gas lines of the 70s uh you know but I I remember talking to my parents about it and you know amongst the people who did live through through that episode there’s a general feeling that it was the you know the oil uh exporting companies like the the Middle Eastern companies that were kind of holding American hostage but if you look into the history of it uh there

were actually oil tankers off the coast of the US just full of oil just sitting there doing nothing and part of that was because there were price controls in place and they could not actually afford to deliver the oil and obtain a profit so it was actually cheaper to sit there and do nothing than to give Americans gasoline uh or sell Americans gasoline so and they’ll still do they will still do that which was evidenced I think it was at 2021 when the price of oil actually went negative and there were tankers just sitting off the coast because they’re like we we can’t deliver this oil we will we won’t deliver this oil right you have to have profits in order for any economic activity to happen so it’s it’s like the fundamental Insight of Economics that is so underappreciated and you know Nelson Nash was great about like core economic

principles where a voluntary exchange of anything involves two people coming out better off after the exchange happens right so I have money you have a good I want the good more than the money you want the money more than the good because we both have our you know subjective valuations of things so you know we exchange those things and we both feel better and that can only continue as long as that is true so if you interrupt that Dynamic whether it it’s by law or by economic disaster or by uh you know war or whatever then everybody’s going to be poor off as a result and that’s just that’s just how it is so you know all these all these attempts at the government to fix their spending problem it are never going to work because you have to fix the spending problem there is no amount of

so I I uh I have this book that I’ve had in my head for like 15 years and it’s the 16th thing things I learned about you by doing your taxes someday I’ll actually write it but one of the things is that you know for people who are addicted it could be to drugs could be to alcohol could be to gambling could be to whatever people who are addicts there is no amount of money that they can earn to out earn their addiction I mean and you look at Famous cases like Michael Jackson right so Michael Jackson made billions of dollars over his career and by the end of it pretty much broke right he had there was the Neverland Ranch and there was some stuff there but you know when you factored in everything not much left and on the on the more personal level I I’ve seen this many many times

people who get addicted to different things no matter how much money comes in they spend it all and our our federal government is the same way it doesn’t matter how much money comes in from taxes or from import tariffs or whatever they are spending that plus more so you know the CBO the Congressional budget office they did they released a report a few months ago showing that the next 10year projections of uh of spending and basically over the next 10 years according to their report which factors in no recessions everything’s perfect you know just continuing straight line that you know basically the deficit uh created each year which is the amount of spending that Congress is going to do in excess of all the tax revenue and all the Tariff revenue is going to be on average about 2 a half trillion dollars per year and at no year in the next 10

years less than 1.6 trillion and you know with current projections and current spending plans and all that kind of stuff so all these things that are that have the you know the public relations aspect of it is we’re going to raise revenue we’re going to make people pay their fair share of taxes all this stuff none of it actually fixes the problem and the problem is there’s too much spending so until there until there there is the political will to cut spending which is really really hard because now you’re cutting off somebody’s you know gravy train then you know we’re just going to get deeper and deeper into an inflationary scenario because that’s that’s the only alternative is we inflate which is the hidden tax that nobody really pays attention to I mean there’s been more focus on it lately because it’s been so high but um you know if you go ahead I

was GNA saying and actually I’d like to tie that point all the way back to the beginning with the unrealized capital gains because a lot of the capital gains people were experiencing especially everyday people in the stock market in these crazy runs we’ve had is all directly rated to the liquidity in the markets that comes directly from the FED that comes directly from fake money that’s not tied to anything so you’re getting you’re getting this inflationary silent tax and then you’re getting taxed on that with money you haven’t earned yes so it’s it’s a double whammy there with that it with created dollars yeah anyway absolutely I don’t want to jump back in there but those are so closely tied together that you got to make that point that a lot of the gains aren’t real gains they’re not gains in the value of that thing they’re gains are

due to the increase in the money supply yeah absolutely so uh there have been a lot of people that have done some good work on demonstrating this so U one I’ve been talking talking with recently is Mark Moss um he has a a hedge fund and his whole thesis is that the global liquidity generated by you know the commercial Banks and the and the central banks of the of the world are driving asset prices which I think is 100% true and you know he’s got charts showing the the correlations and everything and and effectively it’s something like 95% of the gains in the stock market over the long term are tied directly to the uh to the global liquidity flows so that if liquidity is being created by the banks of the world then Market goes up if liquidity is being drained by the markets of the

world which doesn’t happen too often but happens occasionally then markets go down so you know that is that is critical and it’s also um I meant to me make this point earlier capital gains is the only place in the tax world where we pay Uh current dollars in tax on old money that is not inflation adjust so what that means is that we had I had a case with this with a client this year so she bought a house in California 2011 and then she sold it in 2023 and you know there was gain there and it was rent of property so she had some taxable gain there and you know so whatever the tax was she made I don’t know when everything was said and done she made a couple hundred, and she paid uh whatever it was 50 Grand in in capital gains tax you know between

state and federal so okay on the surface that sounds fine but I I had a thought about this I was like well you know we’ve had a lot of inflation since 2011 and so I went to the BLS the bureau Labor Statistics they have a calculator where you can put in okay $100 in this you know month in this year is equivalent to what in this other month in this year and’ll you know default to current time so if you put in the numbers in real terms inflation adjusted that that million dollars in 2011 was actually had the same buying power in 2023 as like 1.7 million or I forget the exact numbers but basically the real inflation adjusted gain was effectively zero but then she still to pay 50 Grand in tax on it and it’s the only place in the tax code where that happens so you

know everything else is current year right so I earned in 2023 I PID tax in the beginning of 2024 and okay that’s close enough that we can we can call it call it even I guess so you know the the idea of assessing a unrealized capital gains tax is just going to make that even more extreme so it’s just going to make sure that you are paying nominal taxes on unreal unrealized uh basis all along the way so it just makes a bad problem even worse effectively that is fascinating and infuriating yeah what they’ve done in money and how they’re robbing wealth through inflation from everybody it’s a straight up cash grab the taxation theft we all know that you know I think it’s more extortion than theft but yeah it’s it’s not good uh so you know it’s um it’s just it’s just you have to be really really

mindful of what is actually happening and it’s it’s very difficult to look at this situation and make any other case other than you want to minimize your exposure to this as much as possible and that’s that’s really the name of the game uh you know I could definitely make an argument that nobody anywhere should be paying more than 20% in taxes and you know we can set up structures to do that but uh yeah most people most I was actually looking up the statistics this morning cuz the iris does releasee good good statistics they’re slow about it but um you know the people who have a a taxable income of under 100 Grand that makes up two-thirds of the pop of all the tax returns filed so it’s 67% or or 100 Grand or less and when when you go through all the adjustments and you end

up with tax B income uh and they pay 14% of the tax and the rest is paid by everybody making more so it’s uh but everybody pays inflation tax and uh that’s actually you know the people who talk about making the you know the income tax more Progressive rather than regressive what they’re talking about is people who make more should pay more as a percentage and that’s how the income tax is set up however payroll taxes and inflation as a tax are both regressive in that they hit the lowest earners the most so you know uh whatever your talking points are you have to be aware of what’s actually happening and seeing how these effects are hitting the lowest earners the hardest and you know and people feel this right you go to the go to the grocery store I went to the grocery store this morning I paid $61 for that

was just for me I was just getting a couple things for myself um and that’s that’ll last me two days I don’t know day and a half so yeah I mean it’s just you know it’s it’s just crazy I’m impressed with your efficiency man you got a lot done this morning Neil I want to ask like kind of a philosophical thought on taxes my my initial um exploration into the economics system I was at Harvard Kennedy School for my Master’s program and I had what you would call a you know economic celebrity uh cast of professors so Janet Yellen was a guest lecture in Larry Summers class um my microeconomics Professor was Jason Ferman who was one of Obama’s Chief Executive or chief economic advisor somewhere in that in his cabinet so the name if you’re if you’re into economics the names of all those professors when there’s a

republican in the White House they all come down to the Kennedy School and teach there so I got to learn the the opposite end of how I currently think but at the time I was kind of just in the you know kind of the the conservative Malay of like well I just don’t you know anything that the Democrats do I don’t like I just didn’t really I wasn’t thinking through it at least in the economic side um but I would ask them questions as I started to to kind of get more down this track of towards eventually realizing you know pre-trip from jaal Island was what really opened my eyes but what got me there was asking questions of these professors along the lines of you know or just creating money in order to pay the interest on the debt which debt is the money we’re cre like

and I I specifically remember asking one of them how long can this last the answer was that I don’t see why it can’t last forever as long as we can continue to pay the interest and that’s you know the the modern monetary Theory kind of the underpinnings of that Stephanie kelon at at Kansas City Missouri or Missouri Kansas City um you whatever um so I kind of got down that track and then I went into uh my final semester with this under you know a much better broader understanding and I spent the entire previous two semesters reading about macroeconomics and I took a tax law class as a cross- elected at Harvard Law and I thought it was going to be kind of I was hoping it was like philosophical thoughts on taxes but it wasn’t it was more like here’s the tax code um and here’s the situation that

happened and here’s how the courts viewed so it was it was more like let’s analyze what his tax should be in this example um for future tax lawyers but I did ask a question along the lines of you know is taxation theft why do we why does it continue to you know why wasn’t the income tax removed immediately after its initial intended purpose Etc the best answer if I’m going to steal man the argument the best answer the professor gave or that that most clicked a little bit with me was yes we are taking from your production but it is in order to contribute to the infrastructure that allowed that production in the first place if you want to go out and be a farmer and Homestead and raise your own food and everything you make everything you have you make yourself and you make your own all that stuff right you can go

do that and you can be pretty well free from the taxes not entirely today but if we if we go back a 100 years if you just want to be a homesteader you’re not really dealing with the tax code but if you want to interact in the business World drive your car to a job that you didn’t create make money you know it was like the idea that you are contributing to this body of work that exists and is you know in in that answer was you know generated by the government and so that I don’t really buy that but it’s if I’m going to steal man the argument it’s that I didn’t create my car I didn’t create the job I go to I didn’t create the system that allows me to invest in the stock market all like I earn money in the market yes but I

didn’t do a single thing to do that other than just put money in there and so this infrastructure exists and taxes are my contribution to that infrastructure I just want to hear your talk your your take on that um going you know the comparison of like the farmer not paying any taxes because you’re self-sufficient too you are enjoying the benefits of societal development yeah so I mean it is an argument that is made the uh my response to it would be that well 95% of that has nothing to do with the feds so if you’re talking about you know physical infrastructure Bridges and Roads and all that kind of stuff you can get into the the argument as like well if these were privately owned then you wouldn’t have this tragedy of the commons kind of situation all that stuff but even taking the situation as it is

you know that’s not a federal thing that’s a local thing right and and that’s where your property taxes are going and that’s where your state and local income taxes are going now under the current system a lot of those state and local departments are funded in part by the feds so there is some federal income tax going through that system and coming back around so you could make that argument for that part but that is a tiny tiny fraction of what we’re talking about when it comes to paying taxes so if you wanted to if you wanted to go with that kind of minarchist um sort of approach to taxation then fine uh nobody should be paying more than a 10% % tax rate just across the board uh but what when you actually look at at uh government spending you know there’s a couple big things so one is interest on

the debt which you guys were talking about which is basically just past screw-ups that have been made uh the second part is military spending and the third third and fourth parts are social security Medicare and that those four categories account for the vast majority of government spending and those things are generally not even discussed when when it comes to all the all the things you see on the news about oh this budget proposal that budget proposal because those are are considered you know mandatory spending as opposed to discretionary spending so the discretionary part is just like that that last 15% of you know the Department of Education Department of energy Department of this that and the other um but the the vast majority is just those four things interest military Social Security Medicare and uh and those that that’s where your tax money is going effectively now we know already that the

taxes being paid don’t cover that because we have a deficit every year you know the government is creating you know how technical do you want to be about the creation aspect so the the government prints bonds which are then sold to commercial Banks which are then sold to the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve creates money in order to give to commercial banks in order to give to government so the federal government itself is not creating the money but that’s that’s the net fact um so yeah I mean it’s it’s uh it’s a naive argument and and if you were to follow it to its conclusion you would also agree that the current levels of Taxation are are unsustainable and ridiculous so uh but you know the bottom line is that if you look historically the if you graph GDP versus tax revenues it always fluctuates uh between about 15

and 20% of GDP as the max that the government can extract from the American taxpayer and uh you know obviously you can get into the weeds of like how is GDP calculated is that a real number should you add G as a factor which is government spending to gdps but bottom line is that you know that ratio has been fairly consistent over time with all different kinds of tax regimes and you know we ended up where we are today you know 35 I can’t I can’t even keep track of the number anymore because it grows so fast uh I think we’re around 35 trillion now we’re adding a trillion to the debt every hundred days or so and uh and you know your professor uh is right to degree that as long as the interest can be paid then the system can continue the the end result though is

that you end up in an inflationary collapse you know and you know how far are we along to that collapse Point depends on on you know historical circumstance really but uh you know people’s appetite for uh for using US dollars as they get as the purchasing power gets inflated away decreases and um you know as Things become uh available as an alternative so like the the current big thing right now that is an alternative is crypto so whether you’re into Bitcoin or Monero or ethereum or whatever you know this is you know a place to put money that is outside of the Fiat monetary system so um to the degree that people adopt that that will hasten the point at which the interest can no longer be serviced because once once you’re printing money that creates interest in order to pay the interest then you’re in a doom

spiral and it’s pretty much impossible to get out so we’re not there yet uh because we do have enough so tax revenue uh this past uh most recent reported year was about $2.3 trillion for the feds and the interest was and we’re now at a run rate of about a trillion dollars a year so there’s still some buffer there uh but once once the interest portion grows to be greater than the tax revenue collected then it’s it’s over essentially so um how fast will we get there you know I don’t know uh so you know you know the mmtr are interesting because they are partially right in that the government can just create money and because we have a sovereign currency you know the US dollars US Government operates on US Dollars which it controls uh so there is no technical default that that is possible that’s all true uh but they

they’ll say in like the in the parenthetical comments it’s like oh and there’s the price to pay that is inflation it’s like yeah that’s that’s actually the problem because eventually people don’t want to use it anymore and then the whole thing glasses so now do you think I this is a totally just a speculation but something I’ve always kind of felt given the weird approach to crypto and I’m not a crypto expert in the technicalities any of it but the way that it’s kind of like oh no no no don’t do crypto this kind of in a weird like they could just ban things and I don’t know how they you know if they could ban Bitcoin for instance but um it hasn’t been targeted that aggressively and I’ve just always thought maybe could that be a form of you know disguise quantitative tightening like if

you have this thing and you can get trillions of dollars absorbed into it and then it can be crashed by just implementing a lawsuit like they did with xrp or by just Banning you know you put people in jail for you I mean I don’t know what they could do like this is total speculation here there’s no real answer to this but y i I’ve always kind of felt there’s an outside chance that they could just try to in in the name of fighting inflation or quantitative tightening just remove trillions of dollars that exist all coming from people for the most part just wiped them out by by crypto crash like is there you think there’s any kind of uh I mean I I I suppose it’s not really a question it’s more just a kind of a thought I’ve had but like it would be it

would be a way to implement quantitive tightening without blaming the FED for the the resulting deflation which is kind of what which is what they need without actually changing policy I don’t know it’s like you can keep everything above above the line the same and say hey we’re not doing anything and all of a sudden trillions of dollars evaporate whether that’s through a stock market or through a you know a crypto crash seems like a better scapegoat but i’ I’ve kind of wondered because it’s just it’s it’s been a weird approach that they’ve taken to the market where you know it’s a threat but we’re not really that you know how do we regulate it it’s it’s been interesting because when you think of like when when a country wants to sell their oil in something other than dollars for instance you know we go in

and drop some democracy on them assassinate their leader turn their country into chaos and it’s a signal for the rest of the region like you you were a thriving economy and now you are just a war zone right so we do that to someone who doesn’t want to sell oil in dollars done that a couple times in my in our lifetimes but something like crypto which is arguably way more destructive potentially to the dollar they haven’t taken that same approach it’s kind of been a weird I don’t know this is just I don’t know I have a hard time seeing anything in the light that it’s presented as and so I don’t I I I’ve heard the arguments for it and and I understand that there is a um you know there is there is a role for it in the parallel economy getting outside of Fiat

Etc but I always kind of think well what if it you know like I don’t think this just random Japanese guy just created this thing that is the the perfect antidote to the Fiat system and everyone’s just kind of okay with it and lets it slowly develop there just yeah no need to even really respond because it’s not a question but those just people thought bad about yeah and he would be the first person that I know of in the history of the world that wants zero credit for changing the world completely like that’s weird to me like I’m going to create this thing that disrupts everything and then just you’re never we’re going to find out who I am I’m just going to scale back that’s weird yeah I personally I think he’s dead um I think that’s what actually happened but um yeah so so crypto is is interesting

the um I think when it comes to Banning the US missed their window so you know there was a time from like 20 say 2013 to 2017 that they could have tried that and a different countries have but at this point it’s too uccessful and it’s and it’s actually moderately decentralized and we’re just talking about Bitcoin here um however the the introduction of the ETFs that got approved this past year do introduce that element of Market manipulation that you’re talking about so once you have an ETF and you know it’s supposed to reflect the price of Bitcoin but it quickly because of the concentration of value in those ETFs it becomes a driver of the price itself so if you can manipulate a market to create a market crash through naked selling or whatever uh then yeah you can you can dramatically impact people’s uh you know Fiat value wealth uh if they

have a lot in in crypto so it’s definitely risk factor um but yeah whether they will do that or not I mean at this point in time uh I think the market cap of all crypto is like under two trillion so it’s not enough of a thing to pull a lever on but possibly in the future that that could certainly happen I had a classmate who was who worked at the Boston fed on the cbdc pilot project and he was like when you hear that they’re going to start exploring cbdcs you know they’ve wrapped it up and this was 2020 2019 maybe and it was interesting a couple years later you know they’re talking like you know here’s our white paper on how we’re going to start exploring whether or not we could use a cbdc and I was like oh interesting that means they’ve got it

it’s pretty much done they’ve been researching it for a decade and they’re about ready to go and that that timeline that he mentioned of how long they’ve been looking add it of the Boston fed at least uh coincides with how long Bitcoin has been around so the part of me that doesn’t trust anything I hear yeah like that’s a interesting tie-in but yeah uh I’m not smart on any of this so like if crypto listeners are out there just cringing right now it’s not like a thorough analysis it’s just it’s just thoughts that at least on my end yeah the the cbdc thing is is very interesting in that if they were able to get it done and accepted by the marketplace now you have programmable money so if you’re a new Administration and you come in and you know not naming names or anything you say Okay 25% of

every dollar is going to be taxed then if there’s programmable money then you can just program that and you can say 25% of all transfers just get you know siphoned off to the government and nobody has any recourse whatsoever so um you know it’s a it’s a potentially terrifying tool that uh that they could Implement so you know to a value added tax not as well I mean sort of um I’ve just talked about like on every transaction they could just take whatever percentage they want and you know you could go the Superman 3 route and make it just a tiny fraction but it adds up because you know a single dollar has a certain velocity and turns over a certain number of times over the course of the year uh or you could go ham-handed with it and you know do something that people really get up in

arms and up up and arms about I think they tried that in office space too but he messes always mess up some money detail that’s right hey I I know that you have a hard stop at one and you might we’ve been chatting for a while you might want to take care of some physiological needs so I’m gonna wrap this up and ask you two questions the first one is do you know of any asset that the government is not involved in that they don’t see the value of that doesn’t attach to FASA that isn’t taxed etc etc so I mean that isn’t taxed yes uh you know things like IBC policies are not taxed because they are post tax uh so there is that but they are involved you know uh the insurance companies are regulated by the state regulators and they’re required to have you know Capital um uh

what’s the word I’m looking for uh a certain base of capital compared to their Actuarial uh obligations and all that kind of stuff um so so they’re they’re involved but it is but it is untaxed or post tax in in most cases so uh that is definitely an asset worth exploring for building long-term wealth yep and it’s not reported on unrealized yeah so your unrealized gain are not reported which is the key which is what I was driving there for yes yes it is they are un realized gains that is true and man you have you know we’re we speak uh and somewhat regularly and on a on a group as well but so I know that you have a lot going on and you have some really cool things where people can do some self-service learning that you’re unveiling so what are the best ways if

somebody was interested what you’re saying not only that they can get in touch with you and maybe talk about having a relationship or you know as a client but even some of the other ways you’re providing value for people who might not be clients I know you’re doing a lot of cool things yeah I I have come to the realization that I can’t talk to everybody so uh you know I’ve been building out uh tools and templates and courses that people can can go through their own um their own education at their own pace uh but still Implement some of these basic things to save them a whole bunch of money uh so the best thing to do is to go to Just tax.com and in fact what I’ll do is I’ll put up a page tax shipper.com Remnant and I’ll put together uh a little package for your listeners that

they can get some understanding of how things like IBC impact you know your tax situations and you know how you could use that to start to build wealth and and do it in a tax efficient kind of way awesome we’ll make sure that’s in the show not yeah Hans anything to add thanks for saving me tens of thousands of dollars uh in 2023 and looking forward to more learning more strategies in the future like it’s cool realizing it’s frustrating knowing that there these things have been existed the whole time and we’re intentionally not taught them and all of a sudden for the first time I realized wait a second I wasn’t implementing any of these things now part of that is being W2 only but now that we have a business like it there if you’re listening and you have a a business besides your W2 income there’s

so much you can do and it’s worse the Investments you know for me I I paid I paid a high fee like for this tax planing relative to any other tax thing I’ve done or for most things I’ve done like for me it was a large number but it was returned six times in my tax savings which is really really cool because all of this stuff exists you just are you gonna go dig in the tax Coda I would highly recommend diving deeper into taxes with with tax Sherpa and finding out what what’s already out there you just don’t know about it yeah and the way I look at it I mean yes we do charge money but effectively it’s more than free so because you’re always gonna get more out than than you put in so it’s you know agreed yep I had the same experience and man that was a good

conversation had a lot of fun I learned quite a bit I appreciate the time yeah happy to be here and keep on doing again all right sounds like a plan see you guys all right bye take care n [Music]